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Nothing pleases me more than having a good solid argument with somebody who does not share my views but is prepared to listen to them and give as good as he/she gets. I will always take what they say on board and answer each point on its merits.
I have always been interested in religion and the claims that various religions have made. Christianity is the one I know best, and I have read many articles and books that are both supportive and critical.
My views have changed over the years and I have come to see that there are huge problems with Christianity as it is currently presented to us, these being due to a number of causes that modern scholarship has helped to reveal.
However, when putting forward views that challenge what had been generally accepted in the past, I usually find that the response is far from the open approach that I adopt and which I would like my correspondents to have.
One problem is that people who write on religious topics on online forums tend to have particularly extreme views. For them, the Bible is everything. Every word has the personal endorsement of God and cannot be questioned in any respect.
It is therefore impossible to point out that there are huge contradictions between different Bible passages, such that both accounts cannot possibly be true. We have to accept – apparently – that the Bible is so unified that it contains absolutely no contradictions, when it so obviously does!
One must also reject all the work that has been done down the centuries that queries the authorship of various sections of the Bible and claims that certain passages are later additions written by people who wanted to make points of their own that vary from those of the original authors. This is impossible, we are told, because the whole thing was written by God!
These are points that are worthy of discussion, and taking them on board could do much to strengthen the faith of Christian believers. Indeed, there are many Christian scholars who are perfectly happy to do so.
But that does not seem to be the case with the people I get to talk to!
As an example, I recently queried the treatment of mental illness in New Testament times. Could my correspondent, I asked, really believe that people became possessed by devils and that was what gave them the symptoms of mental illness? Had the work of modern psychiatrists and psychotherapists all been in vain?
Indeed it could! If Jesus cast out devils and made mentally ill people better, that had to be the cause for all time! On top of that, all psychiatrists were agents of Satan!
This might sound like an extreme example, but it is not unique. The conversation usually ends when the opposite party states that he/she has no intention of talking any further with me, because I won’t accept their basic belief and am, indeed, an agent of Satan myself!
I couldn’t help thinking about a funny story regarding this quote: “Beware of those who seek to prove or disprove the existence of God by reason for they seek to deceive us”. – St. Thomas Aquinas
The quote was the point. I needn’t tell the story.
Religious teaching should be the most flexible teachings of them all, because they need to prove themselves to all manner of people, and they do this best, not by the teachings, but by allowing the person you are talking to, to feel the love of God within them touching you as you.
You feel loved and touched by that love in your heart, as they talk.
They say God is love, so we need no more talk, if we can connect to that love, but how to do so, by talking and understanding others, at first, I guess.
I talked to one “spiritual master” once, who told me, “I talk only truth.”
“You will understand me one day,” he went on. Until this day, I have never understood him (Forty years later).
I talked to another spiritual giant once too, who simply looked me in my eyes. Something deep within linked me into that gaze. I felt love. (I still feel that love now, as I write this, thirty-five years later)
What is more important then, the master’s love, or his teachings?
When I get into such people I do not like it, but I try not to let it go. I follow what my religion has taught me.
I have many question with authentic reference , but today no one even have time to listen neither any one want the truth.
I would suggest you to watch this debate , I hope you will get answer for your question
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2iMrxN4NyE Debate Between Dr william Campbell and Dr Zakir Naik
Thanks for the link. I’m not sure that I can spare 4 hours for the whole thing, but I`ll certainly dip into it.
Let me make it easy for you , spare 20 min daily for it and in 16 days you will cover it , In fact it will clear many things and I hope you will be agree with it
I have thought about this a lot while driving. (I have had to do a lot of that lately). I think some very religious people don’t understand figurative language, what do you think?
Yes, there is much in what you say. One always has to bear in mind that the books of the Bible were written according to the standards of their time, which means that their writers had the view of history that applied then and may not necessarily apply now. That means that accepting every word as an account of what actually happened may very well be doing a disservice to the intention of the authors.
There are other circumstances to bear in bear, such as the fact that some of the books only reached their final form decades after the events they described, so that retellings of what somebody actually said are unlikely to be accurate.
My father always taught me to understand both sides of an argument. Then, to make sure that you understand the sources of both sides.
Faith makes for a hard argument.
You also have to understand the motivation behind the writing. We all know how selective writers can become when they have a particular message that they want to get across.
I agree with all you say, John. I find it utterly pathetic that people who claim to be grown-ups can straight-up be in denial of straightforward logic. There comes a point, I find, when it is pointless even trying to engage intellectually with such people.
Some things are better not touched …
in any case, they’ll usually get no where …
But arguing the toss is such fun! I just hate it when the other side gives up – I take that to mean that I won the argument.
I always take a pass on religion and politics.
If you know that why would take on the argument?
I am a Christian but am open to listen to other people who disagree with my Christianity beliefs. Where possible, I make my case. If I don’t have an answer I state it and withdraw till I get valid proof.
The Bible wasn’t written by God but portions of the Bible were inspired by God e.g. the prophetic books.
I believe as a Christian I should open to other people’s arguments but it won’t serve as a basis to influence me to leave the camp.
There are plenty of people still very much within the camp who take a sensible line to Biblical scholarship. My wife has two brothers – one of them is a Bible fundamentalist and the other is not. The one who is not is a Church of England vicar!