DocAndersen
I wanted to clarify my post a little of yesterday on Gun Control.
1. I do not advocate the removal of guns from anyone that has them today. Nor in the US the right to purchase a gun if you so choose.
2. Well, if you have 4000 guns ina suburban home the ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Agency) will most likely remove them anyway.
Gun control is not something that impacts people that have and use their guns for hunting. Let’s be realistic and make sure that both sides are heard.
I do not, nor do I support removing guns from people.
My concern is one that can be addressed without horribly restrictive laws. The easy button here is a four-month waiting period for all weapons that can be used in an automatic mode. Note, of the last mass shooting in the US, the time between gun purchase and gun use was less than the four-month proposed waiting period. All of the last shooters demonstrated in the time before the shootings that they lacked something. 4 months give the authorities time to verify someone isn’t buying that weapon for the wrong reasons. Consider this as the 6-12 months Learners permit for getting a driving license in the US and other countries. Simply making sure the new driver (and new gun owner) understand the rules of the road!
I am personally concerned about the disinformation campaign on both ends of this issue. Disinformation campaigns are risky. Both sides present information that is known to be incorrect or limited, as a fact.
NRA Distortions
Gun Control – removing guns from gun owners. (this is an NRA blast, that they have harped on for the last eight years or more). It simply isn’t true.
Chicago has the most restrictive gun laws and the highest murder rate. Gee that one is fun. It is also wrong. Chicago is in the Guinness book of world records for the most unsolved murders in a city. Staring in 1922 in fact. The restrictive gun laws in Chicago were passed when they were the murder capital of the US in 2010. Gary Indiana (right by Chicago) followed Chicago as the Murder Capital of the US via guns. Both of the cities are not today the murder capital; they also have the tightest gun laws in the US. The reason for the higher gun laws was to get out of being the murder capital. So let’s be fair, murders are down in the Chicago from its heyday.
The vast majority of Americans support the right to own guns. (this one is funny. wrong and funny. if asked should be be allowed to own guns 61% of americas say yes. That is not a vast majority but it is a majority. If asked should people be allowed to own Automatic Weapons (64% of Americans say no).
Anti-Gun Lobby distortions
Guns kill people. Guns do not kill people. People kill people.
You can buy and use an Automatic weapon in 2 days. (no, the waiting period is ten days in most states)
Assault “weapons” are made for the military (partially true, The version made for the military is different than the one a citizen can buy by quite a bit)
Assault Weapon is a term we could also argue. In the US Military handbook of weapon, the term Assault Weapon exists, but it has a very different meaning than what is being used in the anti-gun posts. It is a sad reality right now.
Both of the sides misrepresent the facts. Let’s see if we can get to the middle.
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Trust but verify, right?
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Yes
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No
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Great discussion. I am not certain what the answer is. There are some states that now have their own gun laws to try and compromise.
It cannot be State-level enforcement (in my opinion). I worry that there really isn’t a middle ground with this issue.
I worry that the backlash from events will go too far.
Q: Trust but verify, right?
Yes (10 votes) – 100%
I guess civilians need guns in their home to deter the criminals.
There is also a large population who hunts. They need the guns for hunting.
I can see no legitimate reason for anyone to own an assault rifle
The issue around that is much harder. They have a legal right today. (Semi-automatic) based on that I would advocate a longer waiting period. You ask to buy one, no problem but we watch you for the next 4-6 months before you get one.
once upon a time cocaine was legal, but then it was made illegal. the same thing happened to automatic and it should happen to semi-auto assault rifles as well- they’re too easy to convert…
The problem with massive illegal in this country is always the enforcement.
I would love to see a 4 or 6 month waiting period with an extensive background check.
No one with ill intent can stay out of trouble for that long.
but doing background checks on everyone who wants a gun is also a huge effort, even with AI
that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try it. six months sounds like a reasonable time frame
it gives the authorities enough time to check everywhere. My gut is the US Gov already has people surfing the dark web.
Plus, check to see if they or anyone around them is buying a large amount of ammo.
say someone (like the friend of the shooter in Dayton) buys I don’t know say 10,000 rounds of ammo.
I expect there are any number of agencies with bots scouring the darknet and flagging things for analysts…
It takes time though. Currently, the issue I see it the person in El Paso bought the weapon about 3/4 weeks before the event. His mother actually called the cops (or said she did) about her son.
At some point, the reality of personal privacy and the intersection of society are going to explode.
calling the police in texas to say you are worried about your son and his gun collection will most likely get you nowhere. now if you called to say you were concerned that your son didn’t have a gun collection…
I have a good friend that works for an agency in the government. They are frustrated, their hands are tied. They get the information they want after these things happen.
the NRA is literally getting away with murder, and since there are so many other problems right now, they’ll keep getting away with it
They (the NRA) are in pretty tight financial issues right now, I wonder how much their influence will continue without being able to pay for people’s attack ads…
I don’t understand how that is possible, but I won’t look a gift horse in the mouth
I suspect it has to do with fighting a multi-front war.
https://www.thetrace.org/2018/12/the-nras-financial-weakness-explained/
better than the NRA have tried that and lost. may they pay the price as well
I do truly hope that that will reduce the amount of misinformation out there.
I know a lot of people I trust and respect that own guns. My grandfather and father both owned guns. I don’t want guns removed. I just want semi-automatic weapons that aren’t made for hunting much harder to get.
you shouldn’t be hunting anything that you need a semi-auto to take down
misinformation is cheap, especially in a world where fact checking is on the endangered species list…
I would agree. Unless…
Yes, Jurassic Park. TRex doesn’t go down easy!
I often wonder if facts have feelings.
If you knew you were being carried around like sewer hole covers would you be sad?
facts would need to be self aware to have feelings
how animist of you. didn’t think you had a shinto bone in your body…
I would say Theravada is closer for me overall, but I do aspire to some of the tenets of Shinto.
Japan feels that Shinto and Buddhism pair nicely
I do often wonder. The reality of facts having feelings can be sad.
if facts had feelings, then wouldn’t lies also have feelings?
Shinto is predominantly Japan as its epicenter, right?
Theravada is focused on Thailand, Cambodia, into Vietnam and Myanmar.
If lies have feelings they don’t show them well!
Shinto is entirely Japanese. I don’t think it ever left the islands…
i do believe Shinto is entirely Japanese. It did, however, expand outward in influencing the other branches as china did.
it is so Japancentric, how did it get any sorta purchase outside?
Theravada
Mahayana
Vajrayana
are the three primary variants of Buddism today. Shinto is the 4th although and spread through Japanese territorial expansion.
🙂
perhaps you’re thinking of Zen? Shinto is an animist religion which predates Buddhism by many centuries…
sorry I was basing my original statement on shin-butsu shugo but you are right they are separate in Japanese culture.
The coalesce however is what I was referring to.
many Japanese don’t know which traditions they follow are Buddhist or Shinto, so you’re correct about that
Interestingly enough Iceland has a population of about 330 000 and 1 in every 3 persons owns a firearm. This little country has not had a homicide since 2007.
My assumption is that corruption is controlled from the highest to the lowest level.
How would you and i compare our countries to Iceland? Go figure.
Interesting comparison, I knew of the stats but did not realize what it indicated. Thanks.
it actually isn’t a very fair comparison.
comparison between a nation with a population the size of a US state isn’t a viable comparison.
A wise man once said if you remove the variables all things are equal.
Iceland is a much different population, was not founded by sending people you don’t want to its shores.
You can’t compare 330,000 people to 330 million.
Iceland doesn’t have a national airline anymore it went bankrupt. Iceland doesn’t have a significant military presence in the world.
You know we’re close to millions of weapons … even thin tanks found under the hood, not to talk about machine guns and automatic rifles … whoever wants to buy a weapon gets it for a small buck…..the laws are therefore written to violate them
Military-grade weapons are illegal in the US. It is the semi-automatic weapon issue and I don’t advocate removing guns from people.
I know a lot of gun owners, they are good people. As was pointed out, people that want to get guns, get guns.
I, too, had a gun for a long time, and that illegally … then my wits met and I preferred to sell it
I know a lot of people that own guns. It doesn’t make you a bad person.
Gun laws in America is something I don’t understand, but you are right. People kill people. I don’t like guns because death is in seconds…
However, my brother owns guns for hunting.
We in New Zealand don’t allow anyone to have a gun unless you have a registered gun licence. However, you can buy an air gun with no licence.
The recent situation in Christchurch brought to attention the ease of buying assault weapons for 51 people were killed in one day by one white supremist man with an assault weapon.
After that, our govt in NZ came hard on assault weapons and had a buy back scheme. Some people brought in their assault weapons, but I would say that is a law with no teeth. Like most of NZ laws with criminals, they bring people to our courts and the criminals get a smack over the wrist and return to do it all over again..
For a small country with less than 4 million people, NZ has far too many murders and there is no need for it. It is not because of guns alone.
we have the same rules. There are many people here on Virily who hunt, and their gun ownership is without reproach.
There are criminals as Linda points out, who don’t care how they get a gun.
Finding the middle ground is tricky. Arriving at a conclusive decision isn’t easy. Politics rules because everything including religion is politicized. It is a sensitive issue which to be frank and sadly is never going to be fully solved and both parties be happy about it.
sadly what you said true. Not sad that it was you that said it, sad that it is true.
I heard a podcast on NPR that helped me some (I can dig it up if you want to listen). The study concluded that the tendency to perceive threats, to buy guns, etc… is hereditary like being left handed. And, you don’t blame people for being left handed. That being said, I am saddened and horrified at each little proof that I am walking on this earth with beings that have no respect for life. Life in all its forms.
i have no issue with those that hunt.
I have no issue with those who want to own guns.
I like to bow fish. Bow fishing is illegal in a number of states.
I have no problem with that either way.
The middle however feels further away now than it did before.
Finding middle ground is necessary in all issues, but good luck with that!
Sadly, it is like drugs, you can make all the laws you want, but if someone wants guns or drugs, etc., they will get them.
you are right Carol.
A friend of mine online pointed out that (he is not a member) that I needed to be very crisp that the vast majority of murders in the US are caused with/by handguns.
(11,000 out of the 15000 in 2018)
Have you ever looked at the leading causes of death in the US?
It might surprise you. The top three are: Heart Disease, Cancer and Septicemia.
I actually have (living with a Hospice social worker those tend to come up on occasion!)
Just thought I would share for those who don’t think about these as the leading causes. My Dad died of septicemia.
I am so sorry.
Violence is not the leading cause of death overall.
The scary thing is it is, in some parts of the world (including some US cities) the number one killer of young people.
(number 2 in some areas behind car accidents).
People should be allowed to have guns depending on where they live, what conditions. However, I do think guns should not be easily available, Laws should be strict on those who have them. Guns shouldn’t get into the hands of children, teens and anyone who has no business having one.
I think to Linda’s point below those who use weapons illegally don’t care about the laws. The question is then how do we fairly find that middle ground for those who enjoy hunting and other activities.
I hate responding to issues of politics, religion and gun control. They are all touchy subjects. I will just repeat what I’ve said before: If a criminal, terrorist or random shooter wants a gun, they will get one by any means possible, including illegally.
that is a really good point Linda.
In fact there is need for legislation against gun control in US
There is a need globally. We all need to understand that people that own guns are not bad. People that don’t own guns are not bad either.
We need to find the middle around.